Sell Out, A Series: 5 Questions with Annette Payne
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Sell Out is a series by interdisciplinary artist Angela Fama (she/they), who co-creates conversations with individual artists across Vancouver. Questioning ideas of artistry, identity, “day jobs,” and how they intertwine, Fama settles in with each artist (at a local café of their choice) and asks the same series of questions. With one roll of medium format film, Fama captures portraits of the artist, after the verbal conversations have been had.
Annette Payne (she/her/hers) is a maker. Follow what she makes on https://whatiffactory.ca and on Instagram @akanettypayne
Location: D’oro Gelato & Caffè
What do you make/create?
Mainly right now I paint, I’m a painter, which has been my main focus for over the last five years.
What do you do to support that?
This past year, I had a bit of a fortunate situation, where I had a couple of bucks, and instead of saving, investing, or keeping it for the future, I decided to take a year off and just make art. I rented a studio, and I’m spending all of my money until I run out. I’ve allowed myself that time and space to do whatever, to focus on art. It’s been amazing. I’m now terrified of moving forward financially, because once the money’s gone… I feel really grateful that I’ve made the decision to give that gift to myself. It really is amazing.
Prior to this, I had full time work, and I would paint when I had time. Pretty much every night, whether it was fifteen minutes or two hours, I would always be doing something. Looking back now, through all of my portfolio of work, I got a hell of a lot of work done in those years – fifteen minutes, twenty minutes, here and there – which is shocking actually. It wasn’t a big deal. I’ve always done what I can with where I am and what I have, so it was never a sacrifice, or whatever. When I had a very small apartment, I made tiny work. And then, it just got bigger, as my space and time grew. Right now, I’ve gone bigger, because I’ve got the space to go big. I’m making larger paintings, so I’m playing with that. It’s been fun.
I afforded my art, because I was always working, and I made art my priority as well. It wasn’t either/or, it was: “I’m doing both”. But that also meant that I didn’t do a lot of other stuff. For me, it meant I wasn’t watching, sitting… There’s always time, you can always find time, you just have to prioritise, and that’s what I did.
I also made art with what I had. This goes back to when I was a kid and I didn’t have money for supplies. I would make my own canvases with newspaper, and I would mold stuff with toilet paper, or tissue paper. I started working with materials from the hardware store, because they were cheaper, like cement. Paints and canvases are very expensive, which irritates me, so I made something with whatever I had that was free, as long as I could get it.
Describe something about how your art practice and your “day job” interact.
My living room was my studio, so I struggled with space – it’s very important to keep everything out. If you have to pack it away, you’re not going to do it. I also like tiny cozy spaces. That’s the constant struggle of having a living room that wasn’t a complete disaster, but I had to have the space. I had to have a table, a desk, where I could paint. That was a must. My art kind of worked around that. If I was working out of a smaller space, I was neater, I didn’t get messy, just because I was in my house.
It was something I would do after work, and there were days where I was too tired, and it would be like ten minutes. Towards the end, when I was still working, I was like, “I’m an artist... oh yeah, and I have a job.” I was doing both. I saw them both as the same, so it wasn’t like I was fighting for one or the other. I found my job and my art were two and the same, it was just different environments.
What’s a challenge you’re facing, or have faced, in relation to this and/or what’s a benefit?
A struggle for me has always been–and this is also a personality trait – I always want more, bigger, better. I’m always struggling for something bigger so I’m always wanting more. Before, when I had the tiny studio apartment, I wanted a bigger apartment. Again, it’s workspace. I guess, that’s always a struggle. I have a bigger home, and then I want a studio.
Financing is a struggle. Having a decent job that allows that is important. I never wanted to make money off my artwork, I think that helped mediate the need to be like, “I gotta hustle, I gotta do this.” I never, until recently, wanted to be doing one thing. I like having more than one project. When I was at work, I wasn’t like, “I wish I was in the studio.” When I was at work, I was at work, and that was enough. When I was doing my art, I was doing my art, and that was enough. I don’t think I had that emotional struggle. It was about space. Wanting to have more space to make messier projects.
I’m not sure what the benefit of it is. I’ve never been able to answer that. The only thing I know is that it’s something I’ve done since birth. I’ve always been creative, so I have to. I struggle with why. It’s horrible, because I realise everybody says knowing why is important. I’m sure it’s important, but for me, I struggle with asking, “Why am I bothering to make this work?” And then that happens, and I stop working, and go home, and by the next morning I’m like, “Oh well, I gotta go and do it, because I need to.” So, I don’t know, that’s a struggle for me, and maybe that’s why I continue to struggle to find an answer.
I think that’s part of what I’m doing right now: trying to figure out what I am trying to say, and I still don’t know how to say it. I know I have something that I want to say, but there is still a block there for me. Even though I have a great space, even though I don’t have to show my work to anybody, I’m still blocking myself in what I’m doing. Having the time right now to do that, seven days a week, is great… and frightful! It is so hard! The first six months were great, it was utopia. And then I’ve just been with myself for that long. I recently realised I need to give myself a break and leave the city. I’ve been going out to the islands. I understand why artists go a little bit batty!
Even though I’m self-funded, there’s the pressure of: “Nothing good is coming out of it yet.” I’m sure when I look back, I’ll see I did a lot, but I’m still like, “I haven’t found the answer. I haven’t created that piece. I haven’t found that style that works for me and I’m running out of time. You gotta be good. You gotta be good.” It blocks you sometimes. I hope I get to the point of not worrying about what I’m trying to do. I do know it’s what I’m supposed to do. It’s ok to not have an answer, and it might be okay if there isn’t a point.
Have you made, or created, anything that was inspired by something from your day job? Please describe. (*I know you don’t like the word inspiration)
Probably, but I don’t think it’s been intentional. I get inspired by colour. I’m inspired by words, the sound of a word, or phrases. I’m probably inspired by certain interactions, but my work doesn’t – I never go home and say: “Ok, I’m going to paint that!” It works its way in, but not in an obvious way. Everything, everyday – you open your eyes and you interact – is influencing your art.
I’m influenced by something that conjures up a feeling for me. Things that I’m attracted to. It’s more like a feeling that I’m trying to create or remember for myself. It usually involves a “vintage something.” At my age, that would be stuff from the 50’s, not stuff from the 90’s – vintage cars, the colours. I’m attracted to a lifestyle from the 80’s – surf culture, or skateboarding culture. I’m probably trying to create something that I didn’t have as a child growing up: to have tight friendships, just going out and doing your thing, rough and tumble, but still safe, and that community. Water is really important to me – the ocean, and the colours! Right now, I’m really attracted to the colours of like, a country fair, or California, boardwalks. I see things like that in my day to day.
I’m also really focussed on the chaotic – layers on layers on layers on layers – which is what I see in the world. I see this beautiful building covered in posters torn down, but you know there’s something beautiful underneath there. It’s how life is. There’s layers of good and bad on stuff, but, if you look, you’re going to see something beautiful – or I don’t know, I do; I usually see colour.
My colour pallet has changed immensely, this past year, especially right now. I don’t know if it’s more influenced by my day to day, or that I’ve had time to get to know myself more. I don’t start with intention. I usually just start with a feeling, I just let whatever feeling and movement comes to mind, I start with that. I build a layer that I work off of. Once there’s a shape – a line, a something – then I can see something else in that, and I just build off that, and at some point, during the day, somebody will say something, or something will come up, and that will kind of lead me in the direction of the painting. You probably won’t see that it’s in there, but it conjures up something, and it leads me in a certain direction, but that’s generally mid-way. I don’t start with an idea. I’m usually just like, “I don’t know, whatever, I gotta make art,” and that is usually a physical feeling that I need to. I build up layers, and usually, about half way through it, it becomes a big ugly mess, and I’m like, “Now I’ve got to fix it.” The other half of the work is me fixing that to create something.
I have one painting that was influenced from a road-trip I took recently, or it’s often something I heard on the news. Something that’s going on, that’s really dark and heavy, that’s going to influence my work. You usually won’t see it, but it’s in there, which is partly why I like really bright colours. I don’t get obvious about it, like I don’t make political statements, but it’s there, and for me it’s easier if it’s bright and beautiful.
Angela Fama (she/they) is an artist, Death Conversation Game entrepreneur, photographer, musician, previous small-business server of many years (The Templeton, Slickity Jim’s etc.). They are a mixed European 2nd-generation settler currently working on the unceded traditional territory of the Coast Salish xʷməθkwəy̓əm, Skwxwú7mesh and Səl̓ílwətaʔ/Selilwitulh Nations.
Follow them at IG @angelafama IG @deathconversationgame or on their website www.angelafama.com
